Tennessee was clearly the winner this week in Greenville as it fought back the NCAA. The state sued the NCAA to provide an injunction to ongoing NIL spending. That means NIL payments are back and as strong as ever.

Here, Dave Hooker, visited with T. Scott Jones to talk about the recent ruling that can only help the Vols and might be the final blow for the NCAA.

Hooker: Okay. So let’s go ahead and set this up. Tennessee has risen victorious in their lawsuit where the NCAA was trying to slow things down. I think all the entire time we thought the states of Tennessee and Virginia would win. But I’m curious, kind of a macro, big picture, counselor, if you give me this one, this ruling, let’s say on a scale of 1 to 10. One, this ruling means the NCAA has no power. It’s going to go away within the next 2 or 3 years. Ten, is this just as a bump in the road, the NCAA will still be the governing body five, ten years from now? Yeah.

Jones:Those two I would give it kind of a five. I think the ball game was up to the NCAA to lose. I think they should have cut an arrangement rather than forcing this to a head, sometimes as the old southern saying goes, pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. And right now you know the knives. They are a sharpening relative to the NCAA. So it’s up to them. I mean, if they regroup and understand that they need to work cooperatively in the NIL space and with these member institutions, I think they have an opportunity to survive and come out. But if they continue to persist and basically in sort of an ugly manner in which, you know, they’re just going to dictate what’s going to happen, I think they’re going to find themselves once again on the short end of the stick.

Hooker:Yeah. So again, Tennessee is able to rise victorious out of their lawsuit. That was them versus the state of Tennessee and the University of Tennessee versus the NCAA. So go ahead and hit that like and subscribe button because we’re going to show you some things here that you probably don’t know about. Um, as far as the legalities of it, nobody knows more than T Scott Jones when it comes to criminal defense or personal injury. You’ve got to check out T Scott Jones. He’s our title sponsor, and we greatly appreciate his support. So, banksandjones.com. The judge seemed to center his opinion on irreparable harm. Do you mean irreparable harm towards the university’s integrity or irreparable harm by giving a player too much money? And that could go wrong. I didn’t follow that well.

Jones:I think what the judge is basically interpreting is the harm to the actual student athletes. As we know, just like when a flower blooms, it has a finite period of time in which it is in its glory, in its beauty. And then as we go into the twilight of the fall, obviously the petals fall off. Well, similarly with a student athlete, I mean, they have worked very hard at their craft and their expertise. They’ve gotten to a certain level. So to say that, hey, you can compensate them later or do something of that nature when they’re talking about the irreparable harm. They’re talking about the fact that, you know, basically there is a limited shelf life for these athletes. I think, you know, obviously not in the NCAA space, but Bum Phillips, you know, the famous coach from the Houston Oilers, he said, you know, what does NFL stand for? Not for long. And so when you understand that and you look at what the average career is, I mean, you know, it’s kind of like that funnel of life. It just keeps getting narrower and narrower. And so when they reach that division one level and have the ability to, if you will, profit from their name, image and likeness, that’s only a very, very short window. And so the judge centered on that in the fact that the NCAA was interfering with the competitive nature of the ability of these citizens of the United States. These athletes are citizens to contract relative to their name, image and likeness, and that it was abhorrent to interfere with that.

Hooker:Why an injunction as I remind people to hit like and subscribe.

Jones: You know, an injunction is an order, if you will, to the court or by the court to stop and to restrain somebody from interfering in a particular activity. And in this particular case, the NCAA was, you know, being that sort of 800 lb gorilla that they seem to want to do in that, They were going to dictate what all was going to happen. So the possibility for that was irreparable harm. And that’s, again, going back to what the judge centered his opinion on, was so great that the court had to weigh all of those factors and one of the most important factors, and we look at it in Judge Corker’s opinion, is the likelihood of success. And, you know, the judge is basically already, if you will, sort of telegraphed what’s going to happen with regards to this absent, you know, some real changes, either in the way the NCAA pursues the matter or in the law itself. The judge has indicated that he is of a mind that the university and the states will prevail with regards to their action against the NCAA.

Hooker:Great. Interesting stuff. You can’t get anywhere else Off The Hook Sports represented by Banks and Jones. T Scott Jones, nice enough to join us on a weekend. That’s how much he cares about not only this particular case, but his clients as well. That’s why when it comes to criminal defense or personal injury. Banks and Jones is the way to go. What is this forecast for the future? I could go like a hundred different ways, I could say. Well, eventually they’re going to have to unionize and the schools are going to have to pay them. We could just go willy-nilly as we’ve gone to this point. But what do you think of this forecast for the future?

Jones:You know, I think if cooler heads prevail at the NCAA and now whether or not that occurs or not, I don’t know. They’re so used to just kind of getting their way, you know, honestly kind of like Herschel Walker running over and through a line, you know, but eventually, you know, you meet somebody that can, uh, take the, uh, the big back down in this situation. We’re, uh, seeing the university stand up. So what the future holds, I don’t know, it’s been kind of the wild, wild West since the Alston decision. And the NCAA, instead of being proactive and trying to, if you will, work cooperatively with member institutions and folks in the Nil space to figure out what’s really going to work long term, they just kind of went in there and thought that they were just going to dictate what the terms were. And, you know, they came up short.

Hooker: It’s like if you support the University of Tennessee in the state of Tennessee, subscribe as well. If you’re not a big fan of the NCAA, uh, I wonder if most Tennessee fans, uh, are more opposed to the University of Alabama or the NCAA? Who do they want to see crumble the soonest? They seem to be both doing that. Uh, the NCAA kind of backed itself into a corner a little bit, didn’t it, because they didn’t really have anything to gain. Because it could still be overturned. But they had everything to lose. Yeah.

Jones:I mean, and it was just sort of unfathomable. And I don’t know necessarily who is, if you will, direct the ship. I mean, you would like to think that basically the head of the NCAA is directing it, but sometimes they listen to folks.

Hooker:You know, it’s funny, he said, I can’t even name right now. At the top of my head, I knew who it was for 25 years. I’m not sure who’s heading up the NCAA. I know Mark Emmert took it right into, uh, basically crashed it. I don’t even know who’s running the NCAA at this point.

Jones: Yeah, I mean, it really does sort of beg the question. I mean, you’re like, you know, you just never get anywhere with that sort of bullish attitude and that you can control folks. I mean, you know, that’s sort of the way our country is. And I mean, literally, you talk about driving the ship of the NCAA straight into an iceberg. I mean, you know, when you see it out there on the horizon, I mean, you probably ought to steer away from it and or look to avoid it. But they just saw, uh, you know, if you will, they were hell bent for leather and, uh, you know, like I said before, I mean, yeah, they wanted to just keep pursuing it, pursuing it, pursuing it. And, uh, you know, it just didn’t work out well for them.

Hooker: I, I did a little bit of research because in the end, don’t we all know that it comes down to money? So I don’t understand how the NCAA could defeat not just Tennessee and Virginia, but if other schools and other states jumped on board because, for instance, I did my homework, their annual budget is about $85 million. You take any one of the premier schools and you’re looking at $200 million. They could just throw a little change in, and there’s no way the NCAA could battle that financially in court.

Jones:Well, yeah. And you’re in the situation. Let’s just say every member institution just requested to donate $1 million to the legal defense fund. I mean, it’s just an overwhelming army of money and everything of that nature. And, you know, it’s sort of a shame. I mean, the NCAA has been whom we’ve expected to deal with for years and years and years. But, you know, like all good things, sometimes they come to an end and sometimes they are the author of their own demise. And in this particular situation, I mean, yeah, I’ve said it earlier. I mean, cooler heads have got to prevail there. They’ve got to come to the bargaining table. If they don’t come to the bargaining table with this Corker opinion with regards to this litigation I don’t see a long term survival for the NCAA.

Hooker:I had one person tell me now and by the way, take note of what he just said. Said he doesn’t seem long, long term survival for the NCAA. I had one person that told me that the NCAA might just give it up if they lose this one. Um, but there is a possibility for appeal. What do you think they’ll do? Or what can they do?

Jones:Well, I mean, I think they could appeal. I mean, they have a right to appeal that injunctive relief to the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals is where the appeal would go. But whether or not the Sixth Circuit  chooses to interfere at this point in time, I mean, I don’t know. I really don’t think they will, especially given what I consider to be a very well reasoned opinion by Judge Corker. But, you know, I, I don’t know if it might not be just throwing good money after bad  for the NCAA to do that so long term. I think that, you know, it’s on the horizon and it is their game to lose. I mean, the NCAA has got to step back and look at this from a negotiated standpoint. Otherwise I think they’ve done well.

Hooker:And we’re talking about guys that haven’t done that historically. So if they do, I would be a little bit surprised. As far as the ramification for UT athletes and the NIL, I assume now it’s just business as usual, right?

Jones:Yeah. I mean, I think everybody’s going to be circumspect with the way that they handle things and making sure that the contracts are in place in a correct and appropriate manner. But yeah, I mean, I think the university is going to continue to move forward. And I think you’re going to see sort of a bandwagon effect, i.e. if the NCAA continued to try to if you will impress their will, you’re going to see all of these other states pile on to this lawsuit. And like what we talk, I mean, the NCAA can only battle on so many fronts. So. Do I think they will likely appeal at least the injunction? I think so, but I just do not see the Sixth Circuit taking it up and doing anything with it. Uh, at least pre long term decision. But you know, there’s going to be a lot of ramifications out of this. And so do we see a changing of the guard. Do we see as you know I saw you talk about previously with regards to uh, you know, the SEC and some of the other conferences forming a super conference, a super collective. We don’t need you. NCAA will organize our own ball games. I mean, we’re pretty capable of selling tickets and negotiating with  the networks for the TV dollars, so I, I don’t know, I mean, you know, does the NCAA go the way of Blockbuster if you don’t change and you don’t adapt to basically, you know, the changing times, I mean, what happens? I mean, how do we get our movies now? We stream them, right? I mean, you look at, you know, renting stuff anymore, perhaps on a rented stream, but we don’t go to a brick and mortar store to get our movies.

Hooker:It is so insane that you brought that up because I watched a documentary on Blockbuster, and it was Netflix that was doing it. They would mail it to you and they would have the box, and they did change. They said, we’re going to be able to stream this thing to you. And it hurt them financially for a while. Blockbuster didn’t change at all. I don’t know about you, but to me the NCAA feels a lot more like Blockbuster.

Jones:Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know, you’ve just got to change with the times. I mean, think about, you know, you’ve got a very sophisticated show here. You know, I’m sitting here at my office, you’re likewise in another location. And yet we are effectively broadcasting and able to bring this to bear into the public. We couldn’t have done that 20, 25 years ago. I mean, we wouldn’t even have thought about it without, if you will, an incredible amount of equipment. And it would have almost been like a regular TV production broadcast. And so, you know, everything evolves, everything changes. You cannot be a leader and just be basically structured in sort of the way we’ve always done it that way. So that’s the way we’re going to keep doing it. I mean, that never works. You gotta change with the times. I mean, you know, there’s a reason we don’t run the single wing. I mean, you know, I mean, we got, you know, more than one bar on our face mask and we stopped wearing leather helmets. And, I mean, you know, you gotta change with the times.

Hooker: I don’t think we need to go back to leather helmets. We have fewer head injuries, but that’s different. I mean, you’re less likely to hit somebody if you don’t have a weapon on your head, right?

Jones:I tell you, I mean, you know, and you look at the way things have changed. I mean, I know that, back, you know, when I was in my football playing days, you know, I mean, the way we were coached and taught and, I mean, a lot of times we led with that head and you know not necessarily, good advice even back then, but now we know so much more about impact injuries.

Hooker:I’ve asked this question 5 million times, and it’s going to be impossible for you to answer, but I’m going to throw it at you anyway. The time frame for an ultimate resolution might be, and I remind you, we’re represented by Banks and Jones, by Banks and Jones. Well, it’s because they’re Tennessee’s trial attorney. You can play to win with Banks and Jones because they’ll go to trial. You’ve heard of other lawyers. They say they’ll go to trial and fight for you. They won’t. They just want to settle. That’s the easiest way out. Well, that’s not Banks and Jones led by T Scott Jones. They won’t settle. They’ll go to trial for you. Tennessee’s trial attorney. They play to win. Truly Tennessee’s trial attorney when it comes to criminal defense or personal injury. Why settle banks and Jones T Scott Jones banks and jones.com I’m going to end it with an impossible question. There’s no way to answer it because it’s the NCAA. Are we talking weeks, months or years before that acronym doesn’t mean what it used to.

Jones:You know I think we’re talking into the next football season, not the upcoming, if you will, ‘24 year. I think we’re probably not going to have a whole lot of complete clarity until the ‘25 season. So I think we’re at least a year plus out because there’s going to be a lot of wrangling, a lot of gnashing of teeth and, uh, wringing of hands. But ultimately, at the end of the day, you know, hopefully, as I indicated earlier, cooler heads will prevail. And we can get this worked out.

Hooker:It’s stunning that they basically had free labor as long as they had, I would have the ticket. If they were making my son work for free, I would be on the sidelines. He needs to get paid, but  they’ve done it for 100 years. So I guess they’re proud of themselves. But now it’s about to change. Some players are going to get a little bit more. Mr. Jones, how do people get in touch with you? If they need help in criminal defense or they need help with a personal injury case.

Jones: They can reach out to me, T. Scott Jones, at banksandjones.com, or they can reach me on my phone. We’re monitored 24 hours a day. It’s (865) 546-2141 again (865) 546-2141. And Dave, I really appreciate you having me on, buddy.